In the past I have talked extensively about my experiences flying gunships, especially the Rifter, Enyo, and Ishkur. Lately I’ve been trying something a bit different and having a play in rocket ships, especially the Hawk and Vengeance. So what are the differences? Well, the most obvious one is that rockets don’t take tracking into account. Instead they rely on the speed and signature radius of their target to calculate how much damage they do, like all other missiles in Eve. Also, despite their recent buff, they do lower base damage than turret-based weapons systems. In this post I’m going to look a little at rockets and in later posts I’ll talk about the fits I’ve been flying and my experiences in them.
If we look at a Vengeanace fitted with Rocket Launcher IIs loaded with Caldari Navy missiles and operated by a pilot with all skills at level V then each rocket does 48.125 HP base damage, corresponding to 21.8 DPS. The explosion radius of a rocket is 20 m and the explosion velocity 127.5 m/s. This means that the rockets will do maximum damage against a ship with a signature radius greater than 20 m and travelling slower than 127.5 m/s. At higher speeds the rocket damage will be reduced. The formula for calculating missile damage is:
From this equation we can see that there are a couple of factors that we need to consider. The first thing to take into account is if our target is moving. If it isn’t then we can ignore the half of the equation with a velocity component and just look at the ratio between the ship’s signature radius and the missile’s explosion radius to determine how much damage is done.
If the target is moving then things become a bit more complicated and we have to evaluate a larger expression including the target’s velocity, the missile’s explosion velocity, and the damage reduction factor as well as the radius variables.
Let’s see what this means for an example Vengeance fit:
[Vengeance, Standard]
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Foxfire Rocket
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
1MN Afterburner II
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II
Small Armor Repairer II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Small Bay Loading Accelerator I
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
What happens if we try and shoot a hypothetical ship with a 40 m signature radius?
The interesting thing about this graph is that it seems best to use Rage rockets in almost all situations. Unfortunately this decision comes with the drawback of a signature radius bloom pushing the Vengeance from 37 m to 49 m.
My biggest concern when flying a rocket ship, though, is that it just doesn’t have the DPS to melt targets like some of my favourite ships do. In solo frigate combat there is a general rule of thumb that you want in excess of 200 DPS in order to kill a target fast enough to do it before his friends arrive. So what happens if we compare the Vengeance posted above to another assault frigate, the Jaguar?
[Jaguar, Standard]
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Fusion S
Small 'Gremlin' Power Core Disruptor I
1MN Afterburner II
X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator
Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
Small Projectile Burst Aerator I
Small Projectile Collision Accelerator I
This Jaguar fit does 206 DPS with close range faction projectile ammunition loaded and 164 DPS with Barrage.
Unfortunately these plots show us that in most realistic situations the Vengeance (and other rocket ships) are not able to lay down enough DPS to take out targets quickly. This is a shame, because in a straight up fight the Vengeance is an excellent ship but it just doesn’t have the punch that I am looking for in a solo roamer.
Related posts:
December 5th, 2011 at 8:20 pm
Wensley, I will note a link below where I flew my beloved Vengenace for many months trying to get it to work for solo combat. After extensive testing, I have since moved back to the Rifter, Wolf and Thrasher as my primary solo boats. I wish, like you, that the Vengeance was at least viable from a DPS standpoint, but I have not made it work. The tank is incredible and I had to fits that were excellent (one with a cap booster and one with a web). However, the ship is about 100 DPS shy of being viable in my opinion.
I even emailed Taurean (FLight of Dragons) on numerous occasions about it – as he seems to do well with it.
Anyhow, I can validate your numbers with real world (well, Eve World) experience.
http://rvb.tech-pc.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=29…
Delucian
December 6th, 2011 at 12:38 am
Its not that the Vengeance isn't a highly competent PvP ship. I know lots of people who swear by it for AF v AF combat. Its just that it doesn't quite have the DPS for what I want it to do. Especially now I've seen the speed that the newly boosted Enyo can melt things!
December 6th, 2011 at 2:18 am
Replace the EANM with a Ballistic Control, the CCC rig for a T2 RoF/Damage rig (only 3M if you can find a decent producer) and you have my fit. The tank goes down, but the DPS goes up remarkably.
Also, carry both Rage & Faction rockets! Use Rage vs shield buffer frigates and above, whilst Faction against the rest (Interceptors etc.) due to the Rage rockets having a slower explosion velocity!
December 6th, 2011 at 10:46 am
Sulei, what post are you replying to here? There is no EANM or CCC on the fit I posted and I made graphs to show that for even armour frigates Rage is the best choice, surprisingly.
December 6th, 2011 at 3:50 pm
I fail at commenting, was supposed to be replying to Delucian's post.
Last time I checked Rage vs Armor Frigates did less damage than Faction, but that was a little while ago – my skills have gone up considerably since then.
As for your conclusion, I agree. Rocket boats DPS is not that much lower than Turrets, but for a fight where every little counts (picking off tackle before the gang arrives), Rocket can't compare to a gank orientated Wolf or Enyo.
December 6th, 2011 at 4:09 pm
Ah, okay, that makes sense. Looking at the number these days then Rage have no issues hitting frigates unless I screwed up my calculations horribly. Will double check in Pyfa later.Their paper DPS is considerably lower but they are able to apply it fairly well now. The problem is that, especially for frigates, there's not much option for getting under tracking so guns can apply their DPS better in most situations.
December 7th, 2011 at 1:25 pm
I agree the vengeance and Hawk dont really have that option as they aren't fast enough alot of the time to have that range dictation but if you want a great Rocket boat, the Hookbill is where it is at.
I currently have been running a dual propulsion fit and it has been great, and thanks to its speed and still having web/scram it is quite nice at picking off tacklers.
December 7th, 2011 at 1:28 pm
I do like the Hookbill a lot, especially in dual prop mode. It does good damage but still doesn't quite meet the sheer in your face DPS that I look for these days.
December 7th, 2011 at 1:40 pm
That is true, cant argue that the damage isn't fantastic in the same way blaster damage is. I prefer it more for the range and speed tbh, ~13km range is quite nice for getting those last couple of volleys in before running even if you run the risk of your prey running.
December 7th, 2011 at 1:57 pm
Aye, its very much a horses for courses kind of thing. I have found the Hawk to be very competent too versus multiple targets.
December 7th, 2011 at 2:55 pm
I can confirm that faction ammo tends to work best against faster targets and I was using Rage against everything else, till I did come combat log comparisons. Unless it is a very fat frig or a cruiser, faction still does more "applied" damage.
I ran the Vengeance against every conceivable frig, AF, cruiser and even a few BC's. To Wensley's point, if you want to get damage done and get out (typical scenerio) the Veng just does not lay down damage fast enough. If you have time, then it can ware just about anythign down and with a DS repper and a CCC rig will do it all day long. A neut kills it and a booster removes your ability to dictate range, and the Veng is anything but fast.
Rockets got a buff, but not enough. Like I said, it needs close to 100 DPS (I wwould take 75) more to be fully effective IMO.
I have come to love the Wolf for its ability to lay down massive damage quickly. That said, I tend to solo most in a Rifter. Never got comfortable with a Jag. Go figure.
December 7th, 2011 at 3:03 pm
I was surprised by the theoretical rocket results. I will do some more maths (ie plug the numbers into pyfa) and see what I find. Like you said, combat logs and testing will reveal the real truth.
December 7th, 2011 at 3:21 pm
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