Can you tell I’ve been thinking about money a lot lately? Obviously dying costs money. While you can insure a T1 ship and get back most of your money, you can’t do the same for modules. Roughly half of your modules and all of your rigs will be destroyed when your ship explodes. If you’re lucky a friend might be able to loot your wreck and return some of your valuables but you’re still going to be down in ISK. The question is how much?
There are, I believe, three main schools of thought when it comes to fitting a ship for PvP.
- The Kil2 approach: In his video commentaries Kil2 regularly talks about his fitting philosophy – keep it cheap. He argues that when you die it is more likely to be because you were outnumbered, out-manuevred, out-skilled, or out-ewar’d than because of your fitting. Therefore why spend a lot of money on your ship? He specifically says “If you can put an Armageddon together that you can lose for 15 million rather than one with megapulses and trimarks that you can lose for 65 million all said and done, you can lose 5 or 6 of the cheap ones instead of losing one of the hard ones. Since most of the time when you die your fit isn’t going to determine whether you die or not, like if you get blobbed, you’re better off getting something that performs a little worse but can get you through the times of you getting blobbed and getting jammed.” As wells as Kil2’s videos you can also see this in action in Prometheus Exenthal’s Frigank videos, General Coochie’s Got Cooch? and Willington’s Counting Bodies.
- The Kane Rizzel approach: Fit to win. Pretty much exactly what it says on the tin, really. Fit your ship to make it perform as well as possible. Buy the absolute best that you can. There are lots of videos of people flying like this for example Mezzik’s -10 and Alex Mevedov’s Flight of the Jaguar.
- The Garmon approach: While much of Garmon’s stuff is filmed with perfectly reasonably priced ships there are times when he goes a bit mad. Last week he was flying around in a 500 million ISK Jaguar with top flight faction and officer mods fitted left right and centre. This kind of fitting is for people with so much ISK that they don’t really feel losses like you or I and therefore can afford to take out incredibly expensive ships and put them in danger. A great example of this kind of fitting is DHB Wildcat’s Nightmare.
The last approach is really just for the super-rich and I’m not going to talk about it here because, well, I’m not super-rich and I’m guessing that most people reading this aren’t either. So what about the other two fitting choices? Well let’s apply them to a Rifter.
[Rifter, cheap] Damage Control II 200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Small Armor Repairer II Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S E5 Prototype Energy Vampire Small Projectile Burst Aerator I Small Projectile Ambit Extension I Small Projectile Ambit Extension I
This is my standard Rifter fitting and at current Jita sell prices it comes in at just under 6 million ISK all told. Nice and cheap but definitely not optimal. By fitting cheap named mid slot modules I’ve sacraficed some speed and tackle ability but I have saved myself a lot of ISK.
[Rifter, best] Damage Control II 200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Small Armor Repairer II 1MN Afterburner II Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S 150mm Light AutoCannon II, Barrage S Small Diminishing Power System Drain I Small Projectile Burst Aerator I Small Projectile Ambit Extension I Small Projectile Ambit Extension I
Upgrading the the Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler extends my scramble range from 8,625 m to 9,000 m. This might not mean much but that little bit of extra flexibility gives you more to play with and also makes it harder for targets to escape. The Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor gives me a 60% webbing effect rather than the X5’s 57.5%. Again this is a pretty marginal boost but makes controlling range that little bit easier. The Afterburner II boosts my top speed from 1,028 m/s to 1,070 m/s. Yet another tiny increase but it all adds to the Rifter’s ability to dictate ranges. The final upgrade was to change my nosferatu for a Small Diminishing Power System Drain that gives me three seconds more capacitor with everything running. What do these upgrades cost? At current Jita prices this ship costs 13,250,000 ISK. More than twice my previous version.
As a little side note you might have noticed that a lot of the modules that I’ve fitted on the optimal version are best named rather than Tech 2. The reason for this is that they have exactly the same performance but are much more heat resistant than T2 equipment. This means you can overheat your modules for longer without them burning out and that can be pretty vital. We’re talking optimal here. You can obviously compromise by going for the T2 versions and save a bit of cash.
So which fitting do I prefer? Without a doubt the cheaper one. The number of times I’ve got into a fight where those tiny benefits would have made a difference is so small that it doesn’t seem worth it. I can afford to take out and lose two of my regular fits for the cost of a single expensive fit.
I’ve started to apply this kind of thinking to all of the ships that I fly now. This is how much it costs me to lose various ships after insurance. I should point out that I don’t yet fly T2 cruisers so they’re kind of hypothetical. I’ve not included battleships because I’m waiting to see what changes finally come with Dominion. I don’t know the T2 insurance values of these ships off the top of my head so I’ve not included them in the table. Each T2 frigate probably costs 2 or 3 million less than the list price and the cruisers 6 or 7 million less.
| Ship | Cost to lose |
|---|---|
| Rifter | 6,000,000 |
| Artillery Thrasher | 12,750,000 |
| Autocannon Thrasher | 15,000,000 |
| Rupture | 18,700,000 |
| Claw | 23,800,000 |
| Cyclone | 28,900,000 |
| Hurricane | 34,400,000 |
| Jaguar | 38,500,000 |
| Wolf | 45,000,000 |
| Scimitar | 123,000,000 |
| Rapier | 152,000,000 |
| Vagabond | 158,000,000 |
| Broadsword | 160,000,000 |
Edit: rearranged the table in order of increasing cost.
You can see that T2 ships are vastly more expensive to lose simply because they can’t be insured. Because of this its pretty are to see me solo roaming in anything T2 other than the occasional frigate. Why put 40 million ISK on the line when I can fly a couple of Ruptures or three Thrashers and probably be able to engage a wider range of targets?
Related posts:
- Three Strikes…
- Day One In The Project Rifter House
- A Little Less Conversation, A Little More Action
- Goodness Gracious Great Balls of Fire
- Assault Frigates: Some Theorycrafting
October 28th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
The biggest consideration, to me, is always: Will this ship do the job I've got in mind for it with a cheaper fit?
Sometimes I fly full t1, sometimes I fly t2, sometimes I mix and match or even throw in a faction mod or two.
October 28th, 2009 at 7:33 pm
This is why I've not really gone down the T2 ship path for most things. Though I'll make a few exceptions here and there for some situations.
Good analysis, BTW.
October 28th, 2009 at 7:46 pm
I am an advocate of T2 fittings. Even after having just become a multi-billionaire by scamming my ass off, I refuse to fit faction modules unless it's for a VERY SPECIFIC purpose.
The cost/benefit ratio to justify using them just is not there… why fit a module that costs so much I can buy TWO more ships to have fun with?
October 28th, 2009 at 8:18 pm
For me T2 ships are something that I'll bring out in gang but I really can't afford to roam solo in them at the moment. I'm far too suicidal.
I know plenty of recon, HAC, AF, and inty pilots who love them for their survivability but I can't see a blob on scan without going to have a sniff at it.
October 28th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
Like you Wensley I fly RIfters, granted I only fly them solo.I agree with the philosophy that you quote. That having those extra little bonuses does not outweigh the extra cost in 98% of fights.
I would have to be feeling extremely comfortable in my isk balance to take out a T2 ship, not that I have them trained or even planned yet. Using the example of a Jaguar or Wolf I could buy 6-8 fully fit Rifters and probably have far more fun in them and I imagine feel far more satisified when I make that kill in a T1 frigate and certainly less concerned of a fights outcome and the risk of losing my ship.
October 28th, 2009 at 9:00 pm
I just flew past you in local
October 28th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
I noticed ^^
November 3rd, 2009 at 11:54 am
T2 ships can be very, very effective. If you fly them sensibly you can
get some very nice kills in them and I don't think it would be too
hard to make them pay for themselves – in low sec at least. Personally
I tend to say things like \”hmmm, I wonder if…\” too often.
November 23rd, 2009 at 1:56 pm
Fitting cheap will do you no good in a perfectly legit 1on1, where both pilots know what they are doing, only that one of them fitted more expensive and therefore wins. Good example is the trimarked geddon vs no trimarks… he will simply outtank you.
So when you fit cheap you not only die to blobs, but also to players who fitted more expensive and fly at least as good as you.
November 23rd, 2009 at 2:07 pm
You're correct that in a straight up, equally skill matched 1 v 1 the better equipped ship should win. In Eve it is never that simple, though. I have killed plenty of, let's call them more expensively fit, ships in my relatively cheap Rifter. Why? Because my in and out of game skills were better.
You use the example of a rigged vs unrigged ship but that's not fair at all. If we take your example of two Armageddons and try and scale things up a bit then the difference is that one uses a named web and point, and saves some money using crystalline carbonide plates rather than rolled tungsten. This adds up to something like 1% less armour. This is in no way a clear-cut victory and better overheat management or a number of other things could swing the fight either way.
\”So when you fit cheap you not only die to blobs, but also to players who fitted more expensive and fly at least as good as you.\” Half that sentence is redundant because people who fly \”at least as good as you\” are, more than likely, going to kill you anyway with a comparable fit.
November 24th, 2009 at 9:51 am
I checked your Rifter Fits and they are not exactly cheap, they are reasonable T2 Fits. Some people take the approach to fit cheap T1 mods on all slots of their Rifters and I bet they will all die in a fire to you, no matter how good their ingame skills/character skills/skills in general are.
I just wanted to state what happens in a perfect mirror (equal skill, no blob, etc). Sure there might be cheaper mods who in the bigger picture make your fitting better than using the more expensive mod in that slot (AB II vs AB named, because you really need that 1 PG) . But if you fit cheaper – as I described above – just because its your philosophy that you can buy more ships/fittings it might give you some trouble in actual fights.
I guess I tend to the "kane rizzel approach" even though I lack the wallet to buy some of the cheaper faction stuff for my ships
November 24th, 2009 at 9:59 am
Yeah, there is definitely a difference between fitting affordable and skimping. I've actually had quite a bit of fun running around Amamake in completely T1 fit Rifters and getting some decent kills. Sure, everyone with the common sense to kite me was killing me but enough people didn't to make it fun.