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	<title>Comments on: RIP Rifter Fleet Issue</title>
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	<link>http://www.rifterdrifter.com/2009/03/rip-rifter-fleet-issue/</link>
	<description>Held together with duct tape and spewing bullets...</description>
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		<title>By: qsicle</title>
		<link>http://www.rifterdrifter.com/2009/03/rip-rifter-fleet-issue/comment-page-/#comment-1145</link>
		<dc:creator>qsicle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Mar 2009 05:31:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wensley.wordpress.com/?p=396#comment-1145</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m gonna go out on a limb and say EFT is doing it wrong - I just can&#039;t see how anyone would go out of their way to program it so that -10.5% doesn&#039;t actually mean a 10.5% reduction in fire rate.

I can, however, see Gripen just programming EFT to take the DPS and improve it by the percent directly, rather than actually simulating the rate of fire (saves on coding).

That&#039;s a pretty good point on the repair cycles. I hadn&#039;t considered the possibility of the extra damage helping with &quot;pinching it off&quot; early and preventing a cycle or two from even happening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m gonna go out on a limb and say EFT is doing it wrong &#8211; I just can&#8217;t see how anyone would go out of their way to program it so that -10.5% doesn&#8217;t actually mean a 10.5% reduction in fire rate.</p>
<p>I can, however, see Gripen just programming EFT to take the DPS and improve it by the percent directly, rather than actually simulating the rate of fire (saves on coding).</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a pretty good point on the repair cycles. I hadn&#8217;t considered the possibility of the extra damage helping with &#8220;pinching it off&#8221; early and preventing a cycle or two from even happening.</p>
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		<title>By: Raelyf</title>
		<link>http://www.rifterdrifter.com/2009/03/rip-rifter-fleet-issue/comment-page-/#comment-1144</link>
		<dc:creator>Raelyf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 16:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wensley.wordpress.com/?p=396#comment-1144</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I understand why it happens - just confused as to why EFT is giving me a flat 20.5% increase when it seems to me it should be 22.9%. Either EVE&#039;s mechanics apply the ROF reduction differently than I&#039;m expecting ( ROFf = ROFi*(1-0.105), ie a 10.5% reduction multiplies your ROF by 0.895 ) or EFT is handling it incorrectly. If the later, EFT may significantly underestimate dps on ships with many damage mods.

In any case, I think the choice is very tough. Overloading makes a higher dps even more attractive, and I generally overload my guns the entire fight when it&#039;s frigate on frigate. Also, it&#039;s not so much that I&#039;m concerned about someone outright permatanking me - its that the higher dps means your oponent will get less repair cycles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I understand why it happens &#8211; just confused as to why EFT is giving me a flat 20.5% increase when it seems to me it should be 22.9%. Either EVE&#8217;s mechanics apply the ROF reduction differently than I&#8217;m expecting ( ROFf = ROFi*(1-0.105), ie a 10.5% reduction multiplies your ROF by 0.895 ) or EFT is handling it incorrectly. If the later, EFT may significantly underestimate dps on ships with many damage mods.</p>
<p>In any case, I think the choice is very tough. Overloading makes a higher dps even more attractive, and I generally overload my guns the entire fight when it&#8217;s frigate on frigate. Also, it&#8217;s not so much that I&#8217;m concerned about someone outright permatanking me &#8211; its that the higher dps means your oponent will get less repair cycles.</p>
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		<title>By: qsicle</title>
		<link>http://www.rifterdrifter.com/2009/03/rip-rifter-fleet-issue/comment-page-/#comment-1143</link>
		<dc:creator>qsicle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 15:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wensley.wordpress.com/?p=396#comment-1143</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Weirdly, 20.5% increase in damage seems wrong to me. &lt;/i&gt;

Indeed. This is because of the voodoo that happens with percent numbers. Reduce a number by 50%, and you&#039;re cutting it in half. But boost it by 50%, you are definitely not doubling it! Damage per shot is a number that gets better the bigger it gets, yet rate of fire is a variable that improves when decreased. Which is exactly what the module does.

If you do 90 damage every 10 seconds, your DPS is 9. Now give the rate of fire a 10% boost (reduce it by 10%). Well, that&#039;s obviously per 9 seconds now, which boosts the DPS to 10. Think that looks like a 10% boost? You&#039;d be wrong then; boosting it to 9.9 would be a 10% boost. Going from 9 to 10 DPS is closer to a 11.2% boost in DPS.

Pretty much Damage Control for me. True that you&#039;ll end the fight sooner... but I&#039;d rather have the overall better potency in this case. Frigate fights are pretty short as it is, and something that has the means to permatank my guns would probably still do so even after the damage mod.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Weirdly, 20.5% increase in damage seems wrong to me. </i></p>
<p>Indeed. This is because of the voodoo that happens with percent numbers. Reduce a number by 50%, and you&#8217;re cutting it in half. But boost it by 50%, you are definitely not doubling it! Damage per shot is a number that gets better the bigger it gets, yet rate of fire is a variable that improves when decreased. Which is exactly what the module does.</p>
<p>If you do 90 damage every 10 seconds, your DPS is 9. Now give the rate of fire a 10% boost (reduce it by 10%). Well, that&#8217;s obviously per 9 seconds now, which boosts the DPS to 10. Think that looks like a 10% boost? You&#8217;d be wrong then; boosting it to 9.9 would be a 10% boost. Going from 9 to 10 DPS is closer to a 11.2% boost in DPS.</p>
<p>Pretty much Damage Control for me. True that you&#8217;ll end the fight sooner&#8230; but I&#8217;d rather have the overall better potency in this case. Frigate fights are pretty short as it is, and something that has the means to permatank my guns would probably still do so even after the damage mod.</p>
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		<title>By: Raelyf</title>
		<link>http://www.rifterdrifter.com/2009/03/rip-rifter-fleet-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-1142</link>
		<dc:creator>Raelyf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 10:10:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wensley.wordpress.com/?p=396#comment-1142</guid>
		<description>All things considered, I like my gyrostab.

But clearly, maths are needed! and long winded explanations.

--------------------------This is probably as far as any sensible person should read.


Numbers run with my skills - but ratios should hold to
Case 1: Gyrostabilizer II;     EPH: 2662  DPS: 118.4   DEF: 15 over 25

Case 2: DCU II;    EPH: 3667  DPS: 98.3   DEF: 18 over 29

Difference C2/C1: EPH: 72.6%   DPS: 120.5%
Difference C1/C2: EPH: 137.8%   DPS: 83.0%

Basically what it comes down to is a choice between 37.8% EPH or 20.5% DPS. All things equal, the EPH bonus seems like the way to go. However, fighting anything sporting an active tank quickly degrades the effectiveness of the damage control, as does flying in a gang since if your not being shot at clearly dps is the way to go, however marginal. A gyrostab also may make the difference between ganking your target and getting out before backup arrives and running away in your pod. For close fights though, thats reversed.

***Weirdly, 20.5% increase in damage seems wrong to me. A t2 gyrostab gives 10% DMG and 10.5% ROF, but that shouldn&#039;t work out to a straight 10+10.5% dmg ---
DPS = DMG/ROF.  DMG*1.1/ROF*0.895 = (DMG/ROF)*1.229
So it seems like the DPS bonus should be 22.9%. Am I missing something?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All things considered, I like my gyrostab.</p>
<p>But clearly, maths are needed! and long winded explanations.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;This is probably as far as any sensible person should read.</p>
<p>Numbers run with my skills &#8211; but ratios should hold to<br />
Case 1: Gyrostabilizer II;     EPH: 2662  DPS: 118.4   DEF: 15 over 25</p>
<p>Case 2: DCU II;    EPH: 3667  DPS: 98.3   DEF: 18 over 29</p>
<p>Difference C2/C1: EPH: 72.6%   DPS: 120.5%<br />
Difference C1/C2: EPH: 137.8%   DPS: 83.0%</p>
<p>Basically what it comes down to is a choice between 37.8% EPH or 20.5% DPS. All things equal, the EPH bonus seems like the way to go. However, fighting anything sporting an active tank quickly degrades the effectiveness of the damage control, as does flying in a gang since if your not being shot at clearly dps is the way to go, however marginal. A gyrostab also may make the difference between ganking your target and getting out before backup arrives and running away in your pod. For close fights though, thats reversed.</p>
<p>***Weirdly, 20.5% increase in damage seems wrong to me. A t2 gyrostab gives 10% DMG and 10.5% ROF, but that shouldn&#8217;t work out to a straight 10+10.5% dmg &#8212;<br />
DPS = DMG/ROF.  DMG*1.1/ROF*0.895 = (DMG/ROF)*1.229<br />
So it seems like the DPS bonus should be 22.9%. Am I missing something?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Venom</title>
		<link>http://www.rifterdrifter.com/2009/03/rip-rifter-fleet-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-1141</link>
		<dc:creator>Venom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 00:47:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wensley.wordpress.com/?p=396#comment-1141</guid>
		<description>Sniff, bye little rifter, we will miss you. wwwwaaaahhhh I hate to see a good ship go down.  DCU baby</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sniff, bye little rifter, we will miss you. wwwwaaaahhhh I hate to see a good ship go down.  DCU baby</p>
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		<title>By: Caelum Dominus</title>
		<link>http://www.rifterdrifter.com/2009/03/rip-rifter-fleet-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-1140</link>
		<dc:creator>Caelum Dominus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 17:55:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wensley.wordpress.com/?p=396#comment-1140</guid>
		<description>I know I&#039;d rather have +50% effective HP than 10-20% more damage. Shame about your Rifter - it was a tough nut to crack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know I&#8217;d rather have +50% effective HP than 10-20% more damage. Shame about your Rifter &#8211; it was a tough nut to crack.</p>
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		<title>By: Mynxee</title>
		<link>http://www.rifterdrifter.com/2009/03/rip-rifter-fleet-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-1139</link>
		<dc:creator>Mynxee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 15:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wensley.wordpress.com/?p=396#comment-1139</guid>
		<description>Raise to pint to the good ship lost! Also, I prefer the DCU on my fits as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Raise to pint to the good ship lost! Also, I prefer the DCU on my fits as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony "EVE's Weekend Warrior"</title>
		<link>http://www.rifterdrifter.com/2009/03/rip-rifter-fleet-issue/comment-page-1/#comment-1138</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony "EVE's Weekend Warrior"</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 14:35:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wensley.wordpress.com/?p=396#comment-1138</guid>
		<description>Let the flags lower to half.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let the flags lower to half.</p>
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		<title>By: Nursultan</title>
		<link>http://www.rifterdrifter.com/2009/03/rip-rifter-fleet-issue/comment-page-/#comment-1137</link>
		<dc:creator>Nursultan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 11:15:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wensley.wordpress.com/?p=396#comment-1137</guid>
		<description>Gyro can be better in situations when you speedtank as it helps you kill your target quicker, which gives others less time to interfere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gyro can be better in situations when you speedtank as it helps you kill your target quicker, which gives others less time to interfere.</p>
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		<title>By: wensley</title>
		<link>http://www.rifterdrifter.com/2009/03/rip-rifter-fleet-issue/comment-page-/#comment-1136</link>
		<dc:creator>wensley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Mar 2009 10:58:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wensley.wordpress.com/?p=396#comment-1136</guid>
		<description>I know, it makes much more sense and I used to fly them like that until I investigated Kane&#039;s fits. Now I&#039;m going back to the tried and tested damage control.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know, it makes much more sense and I used to fly them like that until I investigated Kane&#8217;s fits. Now I&#8217;m going back to the tried and tested damage control.</p>
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